Joined: Oct 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 80 Location: North West Montana
Re: Global Warming « Reply #31 on Mar 31, 2007, 3:42pm »
10 Questions for the Lemmings.
1. How can you estimate the complete effects of a supposed global phenomenon when you only have decades of data? In other words, can global destruction really be estimated to occur in the next ten years by looking at 100 years of data ,when you conveniently forgot the fact that the earth is millions of years old? 2. What has ended the last 3 or 4 ice ages? When we know for a fact that there is a cycle of cooling and warming on this planet, why cant GWL (Global Warming Lemmings)who are positive of earths impending doom prove that this warming cycle is not leading to the next ice age like all the other warming cycles? Gores only answer is to take his word on it. 3. Why do they call it Global warming when temperatures are hot and conveniently start using the term "Climate change" when its cold? 4. When the GWL used there computer models to predict that 2006 would be the worst on record for hurricane activity, How did we manage to escape without ONE major hurricane? 5. Why is China, the largest polluter in the world, being given a free pass while America takes most of the blame?IF THERE REALLY IS A PROBLEM, why don't they really address it? Or at least mention it? 6. Since when did CO2, the naturally occurring gas that all plants life needs for survival, become a pollutant?? 7. Water vapor accounts for a much larger percentage of the "greenhouse effect" about 90%- so why isn't it taking the blame also? It is by far a more likely cause. 8. Why is there no talk of the sun? How can you ignore something that has so much control over the earths temperature?Why ignore the fully documented fact that the sun has been burning brighter for the last 40 years??? 9. Why is the sea level rise blamed on global warming when the sea level has been risen at a constant rate for thousands of years through periods of warming AND cooling??? 10. Then we get to Mars witch is also getting warmer and its poles are also melting. Just how did man do that?? Great data on this one if anyone is interested.
This is easy but also pointless because its not about Global Warming now is it.
Joined: Apr 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 233 Location: SE Alabama
Re: Global Warming « Reply #32 on Apr 1, 2007, 7:42am »
1. It DOESN'T matter WHY it's warming and WHY the oceans are rising...you agree they are and that means we must adjust to it. We can't rebuild everything along the coasts in just a few years can we? "Man" as we know it, has only been around for about 50,000 years. AFTER the last ice age. EVERYTHING you see, the pyramids, the Aztec and Inca and Mayan structures, the ruins of Cambodia, ALL are POST ice age and only a few thousand years old. So, as a species, we have NO experience with ice ages or much of a temp swing. We know that some civilizations collapsed because of climate change, mostly areas becoming too dry.
2. The temperature is STILL rising. AND, it's higher now than it's ever been (based on ice cores and other data).
3. See above. On the whole, it's still warming. All the cooling trends have been short lived and have reversed. I believe that there are small pockets where the temperatures have cooled but I also believe they are due to shifting wind patterns. Overall, temps are rising. Unless every year the WMO is lying.
4. Yes, hurricane activity was VERY low and they got it wrong. SO? How often do the weathermen get it wrong? That is short term WEATHER, very hard to predict, the other is rising temps, very easy to MEASURE. Big difference.
5. I believe because "we have to kiss their ass"? They DO have the worlds largest army AND nukes. Or maybe because they're not in the world organizations that control these things? Besides, isn't that the pot calling the kettle black? We suck up more resources (for our size) than ANYONE else.
6. Since it IS a greenhouse gas and MEASUREMENTS show it growing exponentially and still increasing. It may be only 5% but it WAS only 1% and in 5 years it could be 10% of the amount of greenhouse gasses present. AND, it's controllable. Why make it WORSE if it's a natural thing?
7. As the worlds temp rises, more water vapor (as you said the BIGGEST contributer) also rises. Warm air holds more moisture! So, it's a positive feedback loop. As it warms the conditions are favorable for even more warming. Unlit the cloud cover starts to reflect some energy stopping it from warming the planet. But THAT has problems too!
8. The sun DOES have an effect but it's the greenhouse gasses that HOLD the temp. If you heat something up it heats until you take away the source of heat, then it cools. UNLESS you INSULATE it, which is what the greenhouse gasses do, they keep the energy from radiating out at night. If there were no atmosphere the temp would rise rapidly during the day and then cool rapidly at night. Greenhouse gasses act as an insulator and the more you have, the less cooling you get and therefore the more warming you get. The earth was never PERFECTLY balanced, it's always either getting cooler or warmer, now we're in a getting warmer phase.
9. The seas are rising (and have been for thousands of years) because since the last ice age, the earths temp has been rising. We're warmer now than ever. The seas are also higher than ever.
10. MAYBE mars is warming. There is nobody there to take core samples to see what the temp was. And I don't know if the landers there take temp either. Besides, 1 year isn't long enough to judge. Yes, visually the ice caps appear to be shrinking.
All of this goes back to my original point...EVERYONE agrees that the global temp is rising and the seas are rising too. It DOESN'T MATTER WHY, what matters is it's happening and we MUST at least think about it. If it stops next year, no problem... If it stops in ten years, OK, not too big of a problem... If it DOESN'T stop, then we're in for a world of hurt (literally). And the more greenhouse gasses WE emit, the FASTER it will warm.
Re: Global Warming « Reply #33 on Apr 1, 2007, 10:42pm »
Great discussion, However, somehow I don't think name calling will win the argument. Perhaps maybe we will know what's really happening 10-20-30 or even more ? years from now. Now if one or more huge volcanoes erupts and spews massive amounts of dust and ash into the atmosphere the particles reflecting sunlight may reverse the cycle naturally? Conversly there is also a huge amount of CO2 gasses emitted during a volcanic event as well, so is it a net sum of zero?
Joe - R - Great comeback to the 10 Q's, hey I have a question for you being in meteorology and all. What do you know about Global dimming? A while back I saw a very interesting documentary about the subject on PBS. If I understand it correctly some of the Particle emission reductions that are now in place have actually made the man made "Global Warming" issue even worse, as the pollutant particles that we used to emit could theoretically reduce the effects of the green house gasses by reflecting a fraction of light from the sun back into space.
Re: Global Warming « Reply #34 on Apr 2, 2007, 5:47am »
very well done Joerocker weather or not whos fault it is still doesn't change the fact that it is happening. Kind of like seeing a child in a road, we could sit and blame parents, baby sitter etc.... all day long, but will that help pull the child off of the road? We have a chance to prepare but some would just rather ignore, why?
Gugliols, 1000% agree about the name calling{not needed}. We are different folks here from different strokes with different opinions. I think that everyone has made points on both sides and enjoy a respectable debate{I feel we can learn from each others different views}. Once the axe comes out though, we slowly loose all respect of the deabte and nothing gets accomplished, JMO.
Joined: Apr 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 233 Location: SE Alabama
Re: Global Warming « Reply #35 on Apr 2, 2007, 7:30am »
Global dimming - caused by "visual" air pollution like soot or other particulates, blocks or reflects energy from reaching the earth. BUT, at night it also holds in energy trying to escape. So, it either "breaks even" or helps to slightly warm the planet. It's localized around cities and places that the air "looks" dirty. Some say it's getting better (at least here in the US) because of clean air standards.
As for volcanoes, guess what is the MOST prevalent "gas" emitted...give up? Water vapor! It's usually up around 80% of the total gas emissions. SECOND is CO2 usually at around 10%. I agree completely that volcanoes do the MAJORITY of the greenhouse gas emissions, but we're NOT helping the situation. Eruptions are short lived, and infrequent, I think the planet can fairly quickly "accommodate" and neutralize them. Man however, keeps pumping it out day after day, year after year...
Re: Global Warming « Reply #37 on Apr 3, 2007, 8:02pm »
Hi everybody
I have been following this thread for a while it's quite a hot subject . I live in upstate N.Y. we have never had such a warm winter, it did not snow in November, December and January. Normally we get sub zero in February like -25 for a weak or two, instead we got to zero. what happen next was because it was so warm , the Great lake of Ontario was warmer than ever it has been recorded. This kept the ice from forming because there was no ice, every storm front pic up more warm water and dropped 11 feet of snow in less than two Weeks.
Also the earth is believed to be 4.5 billions years old, not millions.
Re: Global Warming « Reply #38 on Apr 3, 2007, 11:08pm »
Also the earth is believed to be 4.5 billions years old, not millions. I was looking where someone said the Earth was millions of years old, did I miss it?
Last year we had the worst freeze since the 70's and last Summer was grueling hot... over 115°F. We've also had 2 years of almost double the annual rainfall.
Re: Global Warming « Reply #39 on Apr 4, 2007, 11:20pm »
Hi Rob
It's good to see you in the mix of this subject. I have found that just when you think you're right ,you find out you're wrong. I guess you could say put Al Gore on a pedestal, I have followed his career since he was a senator. He always stuck up for the Little guy. Well just the other day CNN new reported Al's electric bill for his mansion was 11 hundred dollars a month. Isn't that a kick in the pants. Some of the stuff that chaos said is correct, and some of it I do not agree with, so it's always good to hear both sides of the argument. So you can't say , you didn't see that coming.
Joined: Mar 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 2,743 Location: Alabama Gulf Coast
Re: Global Warming « Reply #42 on Apr 8, 2007, 7:00pm »
If you were to add up all the temps every hour for a year, you'd find it higher than last year, or the year before that...
Hey JoeRocker,
Ok JoeR,, you've convinced me that the Earth is Getting Hotter and Hotter. And I've completed the installation/Changeout to a Larger Air Conditioner.
So I'm contemplating investing in Property in Alaska,, but if the Poles Change Polarity,, then Alaska might become Dessert Oops will loose my money's on that venture!!!
Ok,, Ok,,, So what's up with the Sun??? They are saying that it is getting Bigger, or Hotter or Both ,, and will soon Cause our Moon,, that is Steadily Drifting Farther and Farther away from the Earth EVery Year,, to End in Fragmentation by the Sun???
MeanWhile with the Global Warming Media Blitz going On Full Throttle:
Our Presidentae Slips out the Back Door For A Trip to Brazil in an Effort to Corner the Market on Ethanol Production and Distribution,, whilst at the Same time Paying the Sugar Cane Farmer's here in America to let their land lay out Idle !!!! When we should be encourageing more and more production of Surgar Cane, Prairie Grass, Corn and other Cellulose ~ Ethanol Producing Crops in an effort to Help Curb the Costs of Energy for Average American's!!!!
Seems to me that Our Government is Playing the Game of Stagnation,, without Representation...
Please look at it, it explains a lot. There are maps with temp change and rainfall change. Of course, these are model runs but everyone is convinced that changes will occur, the question is where and how much.
Yes, the moon IS moving away, SLOWLY, and in no time (a few billion years) things will become a mess. I copied this from a web site:
So the Moon is gradually receding from the Earth into a higher orbit, and calculations (by e.g. NASA at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory [1]) suggest that this will continue for about two billion years. By that time, the Earth and Moon will become caught up in what are called a "spin-orbit resonance" in which the Moon will circle the Earth in about 47 days (currently 29 days) and both Moon and Earth will rotate around their axes in the same time, always facing each other with the same side. Beyond this, it is hard to tell what will happen to the Earth-Moon system.
Governments are always up to something...there are plans within plans...HOPEFULLY, they're looking out for us. Since corporations CONTROL the government, and corporations NEED customers able to buy their stuff, we can assume that the corporations won't allow the government to do anything TOO hurtful to us thereby denying them customers with the ability to buy their products.
The bottom line is the earth IS warming. It doesn't matter WHY. It DOES matter that it is because it will CERTAINLY have an effect on people. How much of an effect is the REAL question. And what if anything can we do about it? Without ruining our economies...
hardpan Moderator ~ 3rd Officer 3rd In Command member is offline
Energy Independence (Without a So Called Carbon Footprint)
Joined: Jul 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 869 Location: Tahuya, WA USA
Re: Global Warming « Reply #44 on Dec 1, 2007, 12:38am »
Global Warming...
Hmmm, if it exists it could be coming from a lot of 'hot air', if you know what I mean.
This link will take you to a list of 600 other links to things that supposedly cause 'global warming'. Very interesting stuff and very entertaining. Smear on some sunblock, put on your shades before opening the link, kick back and enjoy...
IF YOU DON'T STAND FOR SOMETHING, YOU'LL FALL FOR ANYTHING.
2005 Jinma 284 LE 435 hours, destroyed by fire 8/25/07 (restoring). 2007 Jinma 254 LE, Prince PTO pump, LITW 7600 BH modified to close mount, attached to modified Jinma BH frame, modified Jinma BH tank with screw-in suction screen, 10 micron return filter, sight glass & temperature gage, hydraulic cooler.
gugliols Guest
Re: Global Warming « Reply #45 on Dec 1, 2007, 1:14am »
Global Warming...
Hmmm, if it exists it could be coming from a lot of 'hot air',
HaHaHa - I thought "Global Warming" ended on April 9th 2007 when this thread died. Now that you've gone and revived this, things are bound to start heating up again
hardpan Moderator ~ 3rd Officer 3rd In Command member is offline
Energy Independence (Without a So Called Carbon Footprint)
Joined: Jul 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 869 Location: Tahuya, WA USA
Re: Global Warming « Reply #46 on Dec 1, 2007, 2:26pm »
Larry,
I hope my post doesn't get anyone fired up, but I guess it could. It was meant as humor.
I about fell out of my chair while reading some of those 600 global warming causes. From what I've observed, arguing about global warming looks to be on about the same level of futility as arguing about religion and politics. I've had to break up heated discussions about 'warming' between my employees. I usually inject some humor to help defuse it.
Well, I'm getting that look from wifey so I better go figure out why the clothe dryer won't light off. Maybe global warming is causing it It's starting to snow. Wish I could send you some of this moisture.
IF YOU DON'T STAND FOR SOMETHING, YOU'LL FALL FOR ANYTHING.
2005 Jinma 284 LE 435 hours, destroyed by fire 8/25/07 (restoring). 2007 Jinma 254 LE, Prince PTO pump, LITW 7600 BH modified to close mount, attached to modified Jinma BH frame, modified Jinma BH tank with screw-in suction screen, 10 micron return filter, sight glass & temperature gage, hydraulic cooler.
gugliols Guest
Re: Global Warming « Reply #47 on Dec 1, 2007, 5:00pm »
H-Pan
Of course your post was in humor and I took it that way - so was mine (in my own sick way)
Anyway yes some of those 600 results of "global warming" you posted are pretty far fetched.
It's starting to snow. Wish I could send you some of this moisture.
Thank you! - consider it done, it rained all day yesterday and poured all last night and into this morning - all the fires are now out and we got a good soaking to last us for a while Thanks H-Pan!
Joined: Apr 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 31 Location: North Idaho Panhandle
Re: Global Warming « Reply #48 on May 16, 2008, 8:02pm »
I'm new here, and enjoying reading many of the posts here on the forums. I've viewed with interest this thread on Global Warming, and thought that I'd post links here to a four part dissertation on the subject given by an Australian climatologist with an impressive set of credentials. It's very eye opening, and he documents his data and sources very well.
It's in four parts, and really worth the time to view. Thought you might find it interesting.
IF YOU DON'T STAND FOR SOMETHING, YOU'LL FALL FOR ANYTHING.
2005 Jinma 284 LE 435 hours, destroyed by fire 8/25/07 (restoring). 2007 Jinma 254 LE, Prince PTO pump, LITW 7600 BH modified to close mount, attached to modified Jinma BH frame, modified Jinma BH tank with screw-in suction screen, 10 micron return filter, sight glass & temperature gage, hydraulic cooler.
hardpan Moderator ~ 3rd Officer 3rd In Command member is offline
Energy Independence (Without a So Called Carbon Footprint)
Joined: Jul 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 869 Location: Tahuya, WA USA
Re: Global Warming « Reply #50 on Sept 29, 2008, 11:06pm »
To quote H.L. Mencken... The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.
To paraphrase H.L. Mencken... The urge to save [the planet] is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it.
NASA Administrator Dr. Michael Griffin, May 30, 2007 interview "To assume that [climate change] is a problem is to assume that the state of earth's climate today is the optimal climate, the best climate that we could have or ever have had and that we need to take steps to make sure that it doesn't change."
IF YOU DON'T STAND FOR SOMETHING, YOU'LL FALL FOR ANYTHING.
2005 Jinma 284 LE 435 hours, destroyed by fire 8/25/07 (restoring). 2007 Jinma 254 LE, Prince PTO pump, LITW 7600 BH modified to close mount, attached to modified Jinma BH frame, modified Jinma BH tank with screw-in suction screen, 10 micron return filter, sight glass & temperature gage, hydraulic cooler.
Hey Wayne, What do you think of the Global WARMING now? Wish it would come our way, I'm sick of the "cold"
Hi Pat,
I hope the 'global warming' folks in Copenhagen for the climate treaty have a tanker truck or two of Kool-Aid available.
Lord Monckton and a few others don't drink Kool-Aid so maybe another beverage is available for the 'deniers'. (I'm sure no carbonated beverages will be available as the carbon dioxide out-gassing would cause a blistering heatwave!)
Haven't seen much out of Copenhagen on the mountain of climate scientists' e-mails showing that these same scientists who held public trust regarding information on climate change research, selectively expunged data and suppressed research not supporting the conclusions they wanted showing man-made global warming. Well, I'll have to ignore all of that since Al Gore says the debate is over...
I better sit back, relax and read Al Gore's wisdom and poetry and watch his movie...Wifey, how about pouring me another glass of Kool-Aid!
Wayne
P.S. They must have served soda pop! It's 50°F (10°C) here today! Mud, mud, mud!
IF YOU DON'T STAND FOR SOMETHING, YOU'LL FALL FOR ANYTHING.
2005 Jinma 284 LE 435 hours, destroyed by fire 8/25/07 (restoring). 2007 Jinma 254 LE, Prince PTO pump, LITW 7600 BH modified to close mount, attached to modified Jinma BH frame, modified Jinma BH tank with screw-in suction screen, 10 micron return filter, sight glass & temperature gage, hydraulic cooler.
IF YOU DON'T STAND FOR SOMETHING, YOU'LL FALL FOR ANYTHING.
2005 Jinma 284 LE 435 hours, destroyed by fire 8/25/07 (restoring). 2007 Jinma 254 LE, Prince PTO pump, LITW 7600 BH modified to close mount, attached to modified Jinma BH frame, modified Jinma BH tank with screw-in suction screen, 10 micron return filter, sight glass & temperature gage, hydraulic cooler.
hardpan Moderator ~ 3rd Officer 3rd In Command member is offline
Energy Independence (Without a So Called Carbon Footprint)
Joined: Jul 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 869 Location: Tahuya, WA USA
Re: Global Warming « Reply #55 on Dec 18, 2009, 12:13am »
Hi All,
It seems a shame that so many politicians are determined to continue on about global warming when the science isn't there, is falsified or weak at best. Most of us realize the goal is dictatorial control of people for "the greater good".
Pollution in general needs to be cleaned up and brought down to reasonable levels based on honest science.
Rather than worrying what comes out of a well maintained modern automobile or the use of clean coal technology and spending heavily on pie-in-the-sky technology we should first concentrate on correcting severe pollution.
Wayne
A few pictures...there are millions more like these and worse from many countries. Some are of children sickened and deformed due to pollution that I feel are too graphic for this forum. These are just a few from China.
IF YOU DON'T STAND FOR SOMETHING, YOU'LL FALL FOR ANYTHING.
2005 Jinma 284 LE 435 hours, destroyed by fire 8/25/07 (restoring). 2007 Jinma 254 LE, Prince PTO pump, LITW 7600 BH modified to close mount, attached to modified Jinma BH frame, modified Jinma BH tank with screw-in suction screen, 10 micron return filter, sight glass & temperature gage, hydraulic cooler.
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Oops will loose my money's on that venture!!!
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